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I'm writing this in regards to getting a consensus on Olivia's instrumentals in her infobox: Vocals, Guitar and Piano.
However, Olivia also plays keyboards (High School Musical and Sour promotions) , electric guitar ( Guts Tours), and Ukelele (High School Musicals)
I tried to add: Keyboards, electric guitar on infobox - Instrumentals - @Pamzeis removed them saying, Keyboards and electric guitars are the same with piano and guitar. Acoustic guitar and Electric guitar are not the same, they create different sounds.
Then I added "ukelele" @MPFitz1968 removed saying, Olivia is not using Ukelele (currently). But looking at the biography of other musicians.
Bruno Mars - ( Vocals, guitar, piano, keyboards, drums, bass, ukulele, congas ),
Jack White - ( Vocals, guitar, bass guitar, keyboards, drums)
Billie Eilish - ( Vocals, guitar, piano, ukulele)
Harry Styles - ( Vocals, guitar, piano, dulcimer )
We allow as many instrumentals on other musicians, despite not seeing some of them playing it currently. Why do we limit and put restrictive rules on Olivia instrumentals, but not on other musicians?
I responded to this on my talk page, but the ping apparently didn't go through for whatever reason. Copying what I wrote there here: What I'm trying to do here is avoid the infobox list becoming a WP:COATRACK of all the instruments Rodrigo plays; as instructed at Template:Infobox musical artist, instruments listed in the infobox should be limited to only those that the artist is primarily known for using. The instruments infobox parameter is not intended as a WP:COATRACK for every instrument the subject has ever used. (emphasis in original) I think guitar and piano are warranted for inclusion as Rodrigo commonly uses them to write songs and as accompaniments when playing live, but I wouldn't say that's the case for the electric guitar or the keyboard. I believe she's only used the electric guitar when playing "Obsessed" and the keyboard as a substitute for a piano. Also, I don't think there are any fundamental differences between the way she uses the keyboard vs the piano (other than maybe the pedals), so I'd be inclined not to list it. We want to list the instruments Rodrigo uses commonly and has been recognised for. I would take that as having them being noted in reliable sources. I searched for "Olivia Rodrigo playing ukulele" on Google and the only two things I can find are an ET article saying she played it in a promo for HSMTMTS and a video of "I Think I Kinda You Know". Compare that to a search for "Olivia Rodrigo playing piano", far more results come up, including articles in reputable sources such as Billboard and Rolling Stone. Pamzeis (talk) 14:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the same reason I'm putting this discussion into a consensus because you use WP:COATRACK in infobox but when I check another Musicians infobox, this rule does not apply to other musicians, only with Olivia. Forgiveandloveoneanother (talk) 11:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This rules that you apply on Olivia biography, is not being applied on other musicians like Bruno Mars, Jack White, Billie Eilish, and many other musicians.
Have you seen Billie played Ukelele or Harry playsed Dulcimer? aor Jack White on drums?
This rule is only restrictive to Olivia but not to many musicians. I want to get a consensus. Whatever is the result of "consensus" I'm going to follow this rules to edit or add or remove on other Biographies regarding musicians or celebrities or other personalities. @Pamzeis, @MPFitz1968Forgiveandloveoneanother (talk) 11:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now why her guitar and piano intrumentals on infobox were removed? @Pamzeis@Pamzeis@Lapadite
Every single musicians have instrumentals from piano to keyboard to guitar to electric guitar? why do you keep on removing Olivia instrumentals infobox? if this is not gonna be resolved I'm going to raise issues to the contact and Teahouse Forgiveandloveoneanother (talk) 09:29, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:OTHERCONTENT, what other articles are showing is mostly irrelevant to this one. If WP:COATRACK issues in articles of other artists exist, as in sources having not documented that thus and such artist is notable for using/playing this instrument or that one, then these articles need to be corrected to comply with the COATRACK essay and/or related guidelines and list only those instruments these artists are known/notable to use/play. MPFitz1968 (talk) 18:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As per the template documentation, the instruments parameter is to note any instrument(s) that the artist is notable for using, per reliable sources. It's not for listing any instrument the artist ever played or appeared with. Is she referred to as a ukulelist by multiple reliable sources? If no, then she's not notable for it. Is she referred to as a pianist or keyboardist by multiple reliable sources? If no, she's not notable for it. From what I've read, she is notable for being a singer and lyricist, not an instrumentalist or for playing a particular instrument. As MPFitz1968 mentioned, if other articles also display bad practice, we fix those articles, we don't repeat their misuse of templates and guidelines on other articles. If you see a WP:COATRACK of instruments in other articles' infoboxes, and the artist isn't notable for them, remove the ones that don't belong and link to the template guidelines. Lapadite (talk) 09:47, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the reason stated in my comment you replied to. You seem to be confused about what the purpose of the MOS:INFOBOX is. Please refer to the edit note in the parameter: "This parameter is only for instruments(s) that the artist is NOTABLE for using; it is not for listing every instrument the artist has ever used. See Template:Infobox_musical_artist#instrument. Other instruments the artist has used can be mentioned in the article body. If you think an instrument should be listed in the infobox, a discussion to reach consensus is needed first."
If reliable music sources call her a pianist or guitarist, or indicate that she's notable as such, then the instrument can be added to the infobox. Otherwise, you can source instrument(s) she's played in the body of the article. This applies to all artist articles. Again, if you come across articles that misuse the infobox parameter, fix them. Lapadite (talk) 10:25, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Chiming in as a hitherto disinterested observer (I just saw your query on the Teahouse). I agree with the consensus above that the Infobox should only list the instruments that the artist is noted for playing, not merely ones that they can and occasionally do play.
Nearly all songwriters can play at least one instrument, as it's almost essential to the song composition process, but unless they regularly play that/those instruments on stage (i.e. in public performances), an infobox inclusion is not usually considered appropriate.
Consider (random example) the singer and songwriter Floor Jansen: she can play guitar, piano and flute, and studied them formally at the Tilburg Music Conservatory. I have seen videos of her playing flute onstage and piano while rehearsing, but usually she only sings on stage, so she is not known as a guitarist, pianist or flautist, and her infobox does not list those instruments.
As for differing approaches in other Artists' articles, (i) Wikipedia has literally hundreds of thousands of editors, and they sometimes differ in their interpretations of guidelines (assuming they've even read them) and (ii) some fans can get overenthusiastic about including every little detail about their 'idol', beyond what is appropriate in the overview of an encyclopedia article, rather than a book-length biography. Hope this helps {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 16:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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